STRANGE TIMES

This material was wrongly posted. So I have shifted it here.

steve Owens January 13, 2025 at 11:14 am
Why do I respond? It’s hard not to respond when you put up people who say the mayor left town during the fire season. When I look up Californian fire season, the information I get is that it generally starts in May and ends in October. This is not fire season, he has lived in California all his life, but he chooses to lie.
He says that Newsom has mismanaged the water resource particularly the Klamath river. The Klamath River starts in Oregon and meets the sea at Klamath just south of the Oregon/Californian border. Klamath is about 500miles from LA. How on earth is Newsom’s policy about the Klamath river relevant other than for Victor to hoodwink the ignorant.

Patrick Muldowney January 13, 2025 at 11:48 am
Correction: Hanson did say at one point ‘at fire season’ but I missed it. I will accept that he as a local understands like the weather people that were warning about what was coming that this was a dangerous fire season.
*************
Hanson did not say anything about ‘fire season’ he spoke about the known and warned about danger from the winds! That is true and she would have stayed home if she had really understood the danger that others were talking about. But like you with the looming war resumption in Ukraine in 2022 nothing was able to cause you to doubt yourself.

And Hanson pointed out that Newsom blew up Dams! The water flows down the canals that are in place! Only 500miles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfields_Water_Supply_Scheme
The scheme consisted of three key elements – the Mundaring Weir, which dammed the Helena River in the Darling Scarp creating the Helena River Reservoir; a 760 millimetres (30 in) diameter steel pipe which ran from the dam to Kalgoorlie 530 kilometres (330 mi) away; and a series of eight pumping stations and two small holding dams to control pressures and to lift the water over the Darling Scarp. Back in 1896!

But this 500 mile distance 805kl is supposed to be an issue for 21st century Californians! Sure. Or are greens at fault for getting in the way of water supply projects. Of course he has mismanaged the water issue. Greens always mismanage water. ‘Even the dams we have won’t get filled’ said Flannery. Giant floods later the foolishness of this is overwhelming. Flannery was dead wrong and your green champion! A climate warming dope that your ABC put forth as the great expert!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-fires-la-palisades-eaton-warnings-timeline/ the timeline is clear that relevant extreme warnings from weather people were not being taken as seriously as they had to be.

steve Owens January 13, 2025 at 12:05 pm
In the video at 3.09 He states that the mayor is absent at fire season.

Patrick Muldowney January 13, 2025 at 12:18 pm
A good take here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS8hA92Qs3s
Jan 11, 2025 #gavinnewsom #wildfire #climatechange
Los Angeles is burning, and it’s not just a natural disaster—it’s a catastrophic failure of leadership. Politicians like Gavin Newsom and Karen Bass have prioritized virtue signaling their luxury beliefs over practical governance, blindly cutting firefighting budgets, ignoring long-running water and forest management issues, and then blaming “climate change” as the real culprit. Meanwhile, DEI initiatives have entirely overshadowed actually getting the job done when it comes to hiring key civil servants. This isn’t just about wildfires—it’s about what happens when we elect talkers instead of doers. California’s leaders have repeatedly failed their citizens, leaving them to suffer the consequences. What will it take for voters to finally demand accountability?

Patrick Muldowney January 13, 2025 at 12:37 pm
See above I had already made the technical correction. The point was that there were warnings from the weather people and it was well reported.

but this is the old problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-xvc2o4ezk
4 years ago!
Sep 22, 2020
The massive, deadly wildfires in America’s West are caused by climate change,” smirks California governor Gavin Newsom. In reality, bad forest management and excessive regulation are bigger causes.

“All of this catastrophizing around climate change is a huge distraction,” says Mike Shellenberger, an environmentalist once named a “Hero of the Environment” by Time Magazine.

“Climate change is real,” he says, but “it’s not the end of the world. It’s not our most serious environmental problem.”

California warmed 3 degrees over the last half-century, but Shellenberger notes: “You could’ve had this amount of warming and not had these fires. The reason we know that is because the forests that were well-managed have survived the megafires.”

Well managed forests like the one at Shaver Lake, California, maintained by Southern California Edison, have survived the blazes. In that forest, the utility company conducted “prescribed burns” to get rid of tinder that creates big out-of-control fires, and they created “fire breaks” — swaths of forest that are made sparse, so big fires die off when they hit them.

Patrick Muldowney January 13, 2025 at 12:50 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOqKKUxJL-g

Jan 11, 2025 Independent Outlook
Californians will be in shock for a long time over the vast firestorms in Los Angeles. We don’t yet know what ignited each fire. But Santa Ana winds are a regular, predictable, feature of regional weather. California environmentalism discourages clearing of public and private land, and stymies upgrades of water delivery systems. And Los Angeles recently trimmed back its firefighting budget by $18 million. “Climate change” is not the culprit.

Independent Outlook is the regular round-table conversation from the Independent Institute that provides timely insights and cutting-edge commentary on the most pressing issues of the day. It features Independent’s Dr. Graham Walker (President), Dr. Phillip Magness (Senior Fellow and the David J. Theroux Chair in Political Economy), and Lawrence McQuillan (Senior Fellow and Director of the Center on Entrepreneurial Innovation), and Kristian Fors (Research Fellow at the Independent Institute and Director of the California Golden Fleece® Awards).

The Independent Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public-policy research and educational organization that shapes ideas into profound and lasting impact through publications, conferences, and multi-media programs. Our mission is to boldly advance peaceful, prosperous, and free societies grounded in a commitment to human worth and dignity.

Patrick Muldowney January 13, 2025 at 1:41 pm
Instead of Lidzen this is the twaddle Steve is on about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWuHXN9Qaiw
it’s all so settled!

steve Owens January 13, 2025 at 5:45 pm
“Lindzen hypothesized that the Earth may act like an infrared iris. A sea surface temperature increase in the tropics would result in reduced cirrus clouds and thus more infrared radiation leakage from Earth’s atmosphere. Additionally, rising temperatures would cause more extensive drying due to increased areas of atmospheric subsidence. This hypothesis suggests a negative feedback which would counter the effects of CO2 warming by lowering the climate sensitivity. Satellite data from CERES has led researchers investigating Lindzen’s theory to conclude that the Iris effect would instead warm the atmosphere. Lindzen disputed this, claiming that the negative feedback from high-level clouds was still larger than the weak positive feedback estimated by Lin et al.

Lindzen has expressed his concern over the validity of computer models used to predict future climate change. Lindzen said that predicted warming may be overestimated because of their handling of the climate system’s water vapor feedback. The feedback due to water vapor is a major factor in determining how much warming would be expected to occur with increased atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, and all existing computer models assume positive feedback — that is, that as the climate warms, the amount of water vapour held in the atmosphere will increase, leading to further warming. By contrast, Lindzen believes that temperature increases will actually cause more extensive drying due to increased areas of atmospheric subsidence as a result of the Iris effect, nullifying future warming. This claim was criticized by climatologist Gavin Schmidt, Director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who notes the more generally-accepted understanding of the effects of the Iris effect and cites empirical cases where large and relatively rapid changes in the climate such as El Niño events, the Ultra-Plinian eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, and recent trends in global temperature and water vapor levels show that, as predicted in the generally-accepted view, water vapor increases as the temperature increases, and decreases as temperatures decrease.

Contrary to the IPCC’s assessment in 2001, Lindzen said that climate models are inadequate. Despite accepted errors in their models, e.g., treatment of clouds, modelers still thought their climate predictions were valid. Lindzen has stated that due to the non-linear effects of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, CO2 levels are now around 30% higher than pre-industrial levels but temperatures have responded by about 75% 0.6 °C (1.08 °F) of the expected value for a doubling of CO2. The IPCC (2007) estimates that the expected rise in temperature due to a doubling of CO2 to be about 3 °C (5.4 °F), ± 1.5°. Lindzen has given estimates of the Earth’s climate sensitivity to be 0.5 °C based on ERBE data. These estimates were criticized by Kevin E. Trenberth and others, and Lindzen accepted that his paper included “some stupid mistakes”. When interviewed, he said “It was just embarrassing”, and added that “The technical details of satellite measurements are really sort of grotesque.” Lindzen and Choi revised their paper and submitted it to PNAS. The four reviewers of the paper, two of whom had been selected by Lindzen, strongly criticized the paper and PNAS rejected it for publication. Lindzen and Choi then succeeded in getting a little known Korean journal to publish it as a 2011 paper. Andrew Dessler published a paper which found errors in Lindzen and Choi 2011, and concluded that the observations it had presented “are not in fundamental disagreement with mainstream climate models, nor do they provide evidence that clouds are causing climate change. Suggestions that significant revisions to mainstream climate science are required are therefore not supported.”
Now here we have an atmospheric physicist coming to a conclusion which is disputed by other scientists. I am happy to say I don’t know who is correct because I know shit all about atmospheric physics. I don’t understand why you have come to conclude that he is correct other than him being correct supports your position.

steve Owens January 13, 2025 at 6:53 pm Here are some “lies” from Governor Newsome

https://gavinnewsom.com/california-fire-facts/

Patrick Muldowney January 14, 2025 at 1:31 am
Yes he is lying and distorting it’s what he does! It’s what you do too!
Here is a perfect example of you doing the lying ; “It’s hard not to respond when you put up people who say the mayor left town during the fire season. When I look up Californian fire season, the information I get is that it generally starts in May and ends in October. This is not fire season, he has lived in California all his life, but he chooses to lie.’

So people have to have a look to see how Steve is getting this rot going. What is generally the case has nothing whatever to do with right now! They might be going through a drought I suspect they are but the people that notify Californians of their actual current ‘fire season’ said what??

‘Jan. 2–5
Five days before the first fire broke out, the National Weather Service warned on Thursday, Jan. 2, of potential for strong Santa Ana Winds and extreme fire conditions. The following day, they issued a Fire Weather Watch warning, alerting the public to the potential for damaging north to northeast winds.

AND

NWS Los Angeles
@NWSLosAngeles
A Fire Weather Watch is in effect Tuesday-Friday for portions of LA/Ventura Counties. There is the potential for damaging north to northeast winds, that are likely to peak Tuesday-Wednesday.

With no significant rainfall yet, fire season will continue in to the New Year! #CAwx
https://x.com/NWSLosAngeles/status/1875320550094147720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1875320550094147720%7Ctwgr%5Efa081c9323cd691d1f3380a41503bebf61ba1d1c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcbs-news-data.github.io%2Fsocal-fire-timeline%2F

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-fires-la-palisades-eaton-warnings-timeline/ the timeline is clear that relevant extreme warnings from weather people were not being taken as seriously as they had to be. The fact is that Steve is who is lying about fire season as declared by those that do so over there!!

People with a Narcissistic personality do this as the bread and butter of their existence. They are not about solving problems so they make very poor researchers. Consider the activities of our own fruit loop on this very thread. Sarcasm drips, misdirection flows, bad faith engagement at every turn. Small wonder there’s never a ‘gold medal’ insight; but there is always a solid belief in the moral superiority of our own demented greenie.

Silence is resorted to if stumped; tiny concessions made but to no general purpose and climate rubbish is a perfect choice for this disorder. The Narcissistic types love this shallow anti this and that blather.

Patrick Muldowney January 14, 2025 at 2:22 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCSp5e4HGR0
How familiar. Just like the Victorian fires all those years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMYvuY_MLMQ
Mabe a million… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfrHfqt1lKE there are less people dying!!

steve Owens January 14, 2025 at 8:07 am
It’s interesting to see that you have embarrassed global warming alarmism.
The fire season usually aligns with summer.
This current fire is in winter.
You and all the other alarmists now say that fire season is a year-round thing.
Governor Newsome has declared fire season to be year-round a position you apparently support. Well done, you have argued yourself into alarmism. If you don’t credit warming for your new position, I would love to know why you think peak fire season now includes winter.

https://www.wri.org/insights/los-angeles-fires-january-2025-explained

steve Owens January 14, 2025 at 11:12 am
Here’s a list of wildfires in California

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_wildfires

Notice that none occurred in January because January was not in the fire season but now it is and it is, big time.
How do you explain that the fire season has gone from 6 months to 12 months?
It beats me. There is just no plausible explanation.

Patrick Muldowney January 14, 2025 at 11:32 am

1. I don’t live in LA.
2. LA is a city built in a desert like environment subject to droughts a bit like Adelaide but it has very specific and well known huge wind conditions that predictably blow from the hills generated by the near desert!
3. There is a thing called The National Weather Service and it said
NWS Los Angeles
@NWSLosAngeles
A Fire Weather Watch is in effect Tuesday-Friday for portions of LA/Ventura Counties. There is the potential for damaging north to northeast winds, that are likely to peak Tuesday-Wednesday.

With no significant rainfall yet, fire season will continue in to the New Year! #CAwx

4. Nothing unusual about hot dry winds being a fire hazard condition in these situations.
5. A massive firestorm condition resulted.
6. Santa Ana winds are a regular, predictable, feature of regional weather and the fires that have resulted are not unprecedented but the risks are well understood and have been a feature of the region since before white settlement. That was why the relevant authority said that ‘ With no significant rainfall yet, fire season will continue into the New Year!’
7. Steve rather than learn from a local (the experienced right winger Hanson) now lies about this and does so pointlessly when this was NOT alarming but the NWS doing what one would expect and warning that a fire season was in such conditions extending. Nothing unusual. High winds in dry conditions are a hazard. Building in these conditions can be and is negatively affected by greenie policies that put people and their houses at greater risk.
8. These fires are happening in well understood recurrent conditions. That is a fire season and they -the NWS- said so.
9. I am not saying anything about a year round anything but simply reporting the truth about the real actual fire season and not being misleading like Steve and talking about what is usual. Actually these conditions are very common and were in the ‘unsettled states’ an even more regular event from this ‘season’ of potentials.
10. Modern humanity has not correctly addressed the revealed problems of living in such conditions but more that one old local knew what to do and saved his house and a couple of his neighbors.
Democracy Now did not put him on and damp down the alarmism but put on a green alarmist talking hysterical rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCSp5e4HGR0
the comparison is stark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMYvuY_MLMQ
Steve is pushing the later rot and is incapable of learning from the former who demonstrated what policies really work. He now carries on with life untroubled but sure to go a step further with his preparation after thinking about what worked and what didn’t go so well etc.

Patrick Muldowney January 14, 2025 at 12:24 pm
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=LA+fires+1962&mid=883DFB37C5BA74212336883DFB37C5BA74212336&FORM=VIRE far more interesting than greenie rubbish from Democracy Never!

steve Owens January 14, 2025 at 9:12 pm
The Bel Aire video was interesting. It showed that even when the Fire Brigade was 100% white male it was still a massive struggle. Being 100% white male did lead to legal issues as people took the fire brigade to court protesting that they were actively discriminating against people who were both of merit and of color. Thats why the Dept. had to embrace a DEI policy, not some woke vision.
The other point Hanson made as Trump and you have made is that they could divert water 500 miles from the Klamath River. They won’t do this not as Hanson says because of the Smelt fish but because they don’t need to. There is plenty of water much closer to LA in fact as we have all seen in the movies the LA river was converted into a drain and allows LA’s original water source to run out to sea.
Here is a presentation made several years ago during drought either the drought of 2011-2017 or the drought of 2020-2022

https://viterbi.usc.edu/water/

steve Owens January 14, 2025 at 11:00 pm
This guy gives a really good summation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBx0oD5ULs0

steve Owens January 17, 2025 at 10:08 am

There has been plenty of criticism of the LA mayor and yes being a mayor and being in Africa at a time of natural disaster is a bad look but when this happened to Scomo he correctly pointed out that he doesn’t hold a hose. He and the LA mayor are administrators and are not involved in the day to day running. Should she resign because of this, probably she should.
The other criticism of her is that she cut the LAFD budget and yes that is correct, but California went from surplus to deficit and cuts had to be made and these cuts involved non coal face workers and a reduction in overtime payments. The total budget for the LAFD ended up as $895.6 million. In the article I’m linking to there’s a comment about the nature of the fire being so ferocious that 1000 fire truck would not have held it.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/15/what-to-know-about-the-la-fire-departments-budget

steve Owens January 17, 2025 at 1:40 pm
I watched a couple of interesting things, one was your clip of the guy who defied the evacuation order stayed at his home fought the fire and saved his home. The other was the Netflix doco about the fire that destroyed Paradise a few years back. 85 people died in that town because they could not or would not evacuate.
It’s a hard decision to make to stay or go particularly in defiance of what the fire brigade are ordering.

steve Owens January 17, 2025 at 10:28 pm
“… 70 of the 84 fatalities listed in the Butte County District Attorney’s Camp Fire investigation summary occurred inside or immediately outside the victim’s residences, indicating that failure to evacuate contributed to many more deaths (70) than occurred while evacuating (8).”

steve Owens January 22, 2025 at 11:36 am
“Silence is resorted to if stumped…” That aged well

Steve Owens January 22, 2025 at 10:31 pm

Wow, the history of race relations in the LAFD is way more complex than I thought

https://www.lafire.com/black_ff/black.htm

Steve Owens January 22, 2025 at 11:36 pm
Obviously, fighting racism within the LAFD is still a live issue and right-wingers like Hanson would love to roll progress back
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/southern-california/human-interest/2020/02/21/stentorians-keep-the-fire-burning-for-justice

And just a point on fire department spending Hanson claims that the LAFD budget was cut, but he doesn’t mention that later in the year funding was increased and that the 2024 budget was bigger than the 2023 budget or that when you add the LAFD budget to the LA County FD budget then California is spending over $2 billion pa on fire fighting in the city and the county.
Yeah, it’s typical right wing nonsense cherry-pick and ignore facts.