An opportunity for a full discussion of the current state of the swamp!
What do leftists now think is going on.

Tom Griffiths
February 7 at 8:31 PM ·

As some may gather I keep an eye on events in Turkey courtesy of the Turkish Bianet news service and my friendship with one of the initial organizers in the mid 90’s of Saturday Mothers, a weekly gathering of mothers, wives and friends of the ‘disappeared’. My friends husband was one of the ‘disappeared’ and she came very close to ‘disappearing’ herself. Their spirit of resistance and determination, then, now and in the years in between, is beyond admirable – they are inspiring, which is why the Turkish regime is subjecting them to new rounds of intimidation and harassment. I’d like to ask people to subscribe to Bianet and keep a supportive eye on the Saturday Mothers and all others resisting the dead weight of the regime.

Yoleri briefly detained

Yoleri briefly detained

Susan Geraghty How can we help??

Tom Griffiths Good question Susan. Otherwise known as – how can we assist/support the Turkish people to give Erdogan the flick? From here not a lot. However messages of support/solidarity is something we can do – to Bianet (I’d assume they’d pass them on) and I can pass them on through my friend in Turkey. You’ve got me thinking…

Ruth Frances It’s very distressing to see what this man is doing to Turkey .

Patrick Muldowney I presume you are not objecting to the Turkish government providing shelter for the almost 8 million Syrians that it is now involved in doing. So I guess this is just a pro PKK post and not pro Assad and Putin. as if the war with the PKK has not been going for many decades and was under Erdogan making progress via the democratic solution to the Kurdish issues that brought on war in the first instance.

Patrick Muldowney I would say that Erdogan is currently the most important political leader by a long shot and so I think we ought to talk about this issue and see what we actually think. Syria is very confusing and even Arthur and Barry and Dave completely misunderstood what Putin was up to back in 2015. They don’t talk about it these days but believe me I still do and it is even more complicated than it was when I first started to investigate it back in 2011. As you know No investigation no right to speak and I have earned that right.

Patrick Muldowney
I have opened a thread at called MENA if that would help people keep track of where any investigation takes us. I expect this to be quite a difficult investigation and do not assume that people have any current background understanding but just a good will attitude to investigating the issues.

5 Responses to “MENA”

  1. 1 patrickm

    Just to start this I will remind everyone that others have long ago shut up about Syria and the MENA generally.

    I’m not buying their method as anything to do with Marxism.
    People can just review this dead end thread to see what former comrades are up against in facing up to their errors. They were wrong then and have simply shamed themselves every year since. I have no explanation for any of their former conduct and expect no better now!

    They obviously got it wrong and can’t face up to being wrong.

    Perhaps Tom G will in 2020 be able to explain how the swamp is to be drained. Arthur and the rest of us had that big picture part broadly right back in 2002. But now, in 2020, who are the democratic Islamists if not Erdogan?

    Being Irish my initial sympathy is with the Kurdish peoples so I am pretty annoyed at the current leadership of the PKK. I say they have a way forward without a war with the Turkish democrats. But I am keen to understand other former comrades POV and see how we can conduct our modern ‘teach in.’

    What I have known from the moment I realized that a very big war was going to unfold in Syria was that this is very complex. So best we plan for several topics to develop. But this is for the big picture of the swamp called the MENA.

    Tom is busy at the moment so we will have to wait to see just where his thinking’s at, but given how big this issue has been for the last 18yrs and how important, and what a similar attempt at a discussion did to this site I think it won’t be very long before we can make some opening observations that might explain the above facebook thinking.

  2. 2 patrickm

    This would be the starting point I think to a current understanding. ‘the largest displacement of people in the whole history of the Syrian war’

    What do people say the Turks are doing and what do they think they ought to be doing?

    What is the roll of the PKK and what options are now possible for the Kurdish peoples on all sides of the Syrian borders?

    Kurdish people that are favorably disposed to the PKK are hostile to Erdogan but that can’t take us very far in this complex war.

  3. 3 patrickm this type of article points to a very big part of the PKK – SDF problem. They are prepared to work with the big problem and that is Assad and his Russian backers.

    I say the PKK ought to be doing deals with the Turks and the rebels.

  4. 4 patrickm

    This is worth a reminding look back when considering the looming role of the Turkish army!

    This from some months back is also important background

    and there is this from back in Janurary 2016

  5. 5 patrickm

    No one is talking yet!

    Right now Syria has exploded with perhaps 800,000 on the move in winter and we are all silent! Turkish troops are flooding in and we are wordless. The SAA are having their helicopters shot down and Turkish artillery targeting them and even the US is backing the Turks. An ultimatum has been issued to the SAA to withdraw to behind the Sochi agreed lines or be prepared to be hit anywhere in Syria by the Turkish army and we say zip.

    I’m just picking up from Tom G on FB how he is now in almost total La La land in a gut support for the PKK and opposition to Erdogan, yet, it seems to me, not prepared to talk and I am not a bit surprised. It’s all too hard given that it’s the MENA we would be thinking about; So I suppose people will pretend there was a discussion and I just wasn’t involved!

    What a sad end to people who thought they had a Maoist tradition to guide them forward.

    Well here is an open honest thought. Speak up! What has become of people’s Syrian understandings? The silence has now broken yet with Tom understanding virtually nothing except that he has sympathy for the PKK. What I think he has is sympathy towards the Kurdish peoples struggle for democracy and so he might find that he is critical of the current PKK policies if he thought about them. The consequence for bad leadership is born by the people.

    Is anyone prepared to tell Tom G that Erdogan is part of the solution or is it more silence?

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