Erdogan now the most important political leader in the world.

A long time ago now I put that heading up and then shrugged my shoulders and didn’t write anything under it – but given all the current drama I had better spell out, just for the record, what I think is underway now.

1) 4 years after the Russian intervention the world is now watching as a VERY large mechanized army is being inserted in part of what was Syria. They are on the opposite side to those Russians! Many people have failed to notice that this is the biggest picture in this complex development. Most yabbering in the MSM notice only that the Kurds have a big problem and forget that the whole picture of the region must be considered.

What I have termed HIRISE (Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, Iraq (Shia militias) Syria (undemocratic Assad), and Egypt (undemocratic militarists) is going to be the big loser when all this settles down and it will settle down with a FSA Islamist footprint.

The PKK/SDF do not have to join with Assad and his HIRISE suporters. They don’t have to go up against the Turks and the FSA. They have had choices for many years and they have not been willing to make those choices in the interests of genuine democracy. They have not shared power with the FSA but worked willingly with the root of all problems Assad. It is they who have been ethnically cleansing areas and not sharing power with the FSA so this fight was bound to come to them. People should remember that they are as often as not young ‘Turks’ and ‘Iraqi’ Kurds. They are very often non Syrian players just as they demonstrably were not when the Peshmerga turned up to fight ISIS in Kobani. They were correct to show up then and they would do well not to fight now. They are Kurds from the region being given the chance to join with the FSA and stand united against the undemocratic Assad supporting HIRISE. The region is at war.

The Turks for their part are going to continue to make a bigger footprint in Syria and that footprint will resemble current Turkey (a place that has genuine democracy and consequently naturally an Islamist government that is at war with a) islamofascists and b) Kurdish nationalists/separatists. The current Turkish government did not start either war and they have no real choice but to be at war with this Kurdish movement and no choice but to make war to end the HIRISE footprint. The genuine peace (despite the coup attempt and historical ill will across Turkey that can be wound back by more democractic practice) effort can be resumed. Kurdish oppression is still apparent in large parts of the population but change was underway and can be resumed with good will and an end to the armed struggle. I think that good will is on offer in Istanbul and other parts of Turkey and ought to be grabbed with both hands by the Kurd leadership but I think that it will not be and there will be yet another setback. The refusal to remove themselves to the east of the Euphrates and allow the FSA to occupy that Arab territory was the indicator of what this would lead to. The young Kurds have been very badly led and sadly they will pay a terrible price for that poor leadership. It is very sad to see this slaughter of people I so admire and instinctively side with. But the Kurdish nation can not be liberated at the expense of the Arab peoples that constitute the vast bulk of the Syrian peoples. They must deal with the FSA not Assad.

There is even now a way forward for the Kurds and that is with a genuine democratic process and that process genuinely is being regionally led by Erdogan who is clearly opposite to HIRISE and the PKK in all its forms including as the SDF. The Kurds are not democratic yet but I hope that they will take that turn. The same turn that is required of the masses in Iran and in Egypt and so on. The region requires democratic revolution rather than nationalist border wars that the Kurds must back down from. The YPG etc and the SDF is just a PKK ruse. The SDF ought be made real.

The SDF has made war on the FSA just as the HIRISE troops have. They have collaborated with the HIRISE and are scrambling to do so now but it won’t work. The Turks are moving too fast for the HIRISE and are prepared to spread the war out from Idlib if they start being attacked by them so this is a push and shove moment.

We could say ‘I don’t blame the Kurds at the moment’ but the long term problem is that there can be zero democracy while millions of Syrian’s are displaced and not permitted to return to a safe country and that must be a democratic country. They can’t return if ‘Assad’ remains. HIRISE is no solution and is a fascist preserving enclave that has to be overthrown. It is a long term project.

Only Turkey and NATO who, apart from Trump (and who can tell with ga ga Trump) do not yet support the Turks, can do that liberation in anything like a realistic time frame. But with Russians involved that timeframe is not short.

The Turks have upped their involvement just as I said they would be eventually forced to do. They have taken this next move at about the right time and the people who will benefit from it are the returning Syrians who can only return to democracy. They have shown that they can take control of Islamist Syria and control the Islamofascists. They can’t however return people to paddocks and little towns so big cities must come on the agenda next.

The Kurds are not very happy but they have played their side and are still sitting in Manbij so they have given zero ground and now want to invite Assad and the Russians into Manbij. It ain’t going to happen.

The Kurds ought to have pulled out years ago and made some other substantial consessions to the Turks and re-established a genuine peace process that had been underway till the Syrian Civil war brought it back from deaths door.

This advance into Syria is the Free Syrian Army backed by democratic Islamists!

The Turkish military are under the control of the genuinely democratic and elected government of Turkey and they are the best in a rotten region.

The Islamist revolutionary fighters can best be controlled by this force.

What makes this a great problem for the HIRISE is that the US military is STILL very much around and in great demand now apparently. This lurking force is not going to let any significant territory fall to ‘Assad’.

HIRISE is the big loser from this.

This move forward is going to shake things up and despite the ABC/BBC commentary stability is not to be hoped for.

33 Responses to “Assad”

  1. 1 patrickm

    ‘The other clip shows why people of the left should support Rojava.’

    I have been following the issue for a long time and none of my points are addressed by putting up a video of the usual suspects who are now and were all along totally onesided over their support for the PKK.

    I have supported the PKK and been critical of it, just as I have been critical of the leader of the democratic revolution in Turkey and that leader is Erdogan. It is similar to my lifelong stand on the Irish nationalist struggle. The Irish nationalists are to be commended for both fighting-back against oppression and also making a deal with the British when they did.

    The Kurds have had to fight at times and they will also have to make peace with democratic Turkey, and to the small extent that they compose the population of Syria (about 10%) thus help build a democratic Syria. They can’t fight the FSA (now known as the Syrian National Army) and unite with Assad / HIRISE and hide behind their SDF formula and be taken seriously. Their game playing has not worked. They would not even pull back from Manbij where they had no business staying! Now they are being pushed out, and at the same time offered the opportunity to defect and join the Syrian National Army. They ought to be incorporated in this new formation IMV.

    The questions that Steve will not ask himself are one’s like….
    Can the fascists be allowed to win in Syria? What of their policy of driving off the peoples’ that want democracy? HIRISE terror bomb Syrian democrats till they have to run into Turkey and thence to Greece and on through to Sweden for the lucky one’s; so what is to be done to stop this? NO the fascist can’t be permitted to win is the correct answer for a revolutionary democrat.

    My biggest problem with the Kurdish spokespeople being dragged up by the likes of Democracy Now, just talking like Rojava is the issue, is that it self evidently is not and never was. The PKK leadership is just playing the hand that it acquired from the blood of the Syrian struggle for democracy. This Rojava zone is a footprint with an Assad dominated past. This enclave makes no national Kurdish sense and nor does an SDF separate from a ‘Syria National Army’ that is premised on a democratically constituted Syria. One democratic Syria and one democratic army is the long term goal and that is not the current long term goal of the PKK.

    The PKK got their tiny little Rojava when Assad had zero number of troops to spare. THEN they expanded it by attacking the FSA and now we are to pretend that never happened. It is now presented to the gullible as if it was only ever ISIS that they took territory from with the US/cow doing the artillery conquers bit. The PKK leadership were more than happy to have their young fighters do the infantry occupies bit and as they point out they now have their very much larger footprint having lost 11,000 fighters, plus all the injured on the way by first surviving (we can remember Kobani) and then working closely with the anti ISIS cow that ought to have had many more outsiders on the ground! But only Turkey is really putting in the required democratic troops. A great many Arab Syrians, quite often driven out of this ‘Rojava’ enclave do not quite see this latest move as simply as Steve is now putting it.

    The most progressive of the Arab Syrians want all of the Syrian enclaves back as one country. They insist that there must be a constitution and democratic elections and that will mean that the country will reflect the sort of country that Turkey currently is. That is why ‘realists’ really hate democracy. Democracy Now types would rather tyrants like Saddam stayed in total control of the ‘stability’ they bleat about, than have the US/or Turkey invade and bring on a democratic constituiopn and elections.

    Turkish involvement will lead in no other direction.

    Erdogan is now playing the same role as Bush, Blair and Howard did back when the liberation of Iraq was launched in 2003.

    It is very late in coming but as it unfolds it is going to put cities like Aleppo back on the agenda. The cities must come back on the agenda. Erdogan is not about dumping Syrians back in a paddock and wiping his hands of what returning half the population to Syria means. Bad news for the HIRISE terror merchants.

    I hope the Kurdish leadership dump their current failed strategy and unite with the Syrian National Army and the democratic country of Turkey.

    I hope the Turkish army continues to be as disciplined and as effective in this next phase as they have been over the last 2 years.

  2. 2 Stephen Owens

    Patrick your argument doesn’t clear the first hurdle, Syria is run by a dictator but the target of the Syrian National Army is some Syrian Kurds? Tell your mates in the SNA that the road to Damascus doesn’t run through Kobane.

  3. 3 patrickm

    What do you know Steve, overnight ‘Rojava’ simply vanished and HIRISE backed Syria is now said to have replaced it. Do you think it has or that the Turks can let the HIRISE just take over ‘Rojava’ and that somehow this will end the Syrian civil war and bring democracy and thus peace to Syria? No that’s right you don’t believe it so I suspect that you will now listen to Erdogan a little bit more than you have been.

    Now as it happens, every hour Turkish backed Syrians are advancing in the territory and if the size of the Turkish deployment is anything to go by and also the history of former Turkish deployments (people must remember that this is now the fourth such incursion) push is at shove stage yet again. The Turks have won the last three rounds and on form should win a big chunk of territory for the Syrian National Army yet again. But this time the stakes are much higher. The current western political leadership is still Biden like in it’s ability to get results so the Turks are essentially on their own but that ought be no real surprise by now.

    I wonder if the west will be so piss weak as to let HIRISE / Assad regain the oil fields? I think they will and hope they won’t. Will the US just let them cross the river or will the US air force step on them and let the Turks do what must be done in the alternative? I think the US will let them come across but hope they won’t.

    With Trump who really knows; and he is really in the driving seat.

    With Steve it’s just as hard to get a systematic thought process working.

    The Turks up to date have had the clear intent of establishing a long term viable enclave that the Syrian people can exist in without being driven out of, either by HIRISE activities or that of the PKK (in whatever SDF form that underlying reality takes). Despite the ABC/BBC view Erdogan led Turkey has no territorial ambitions in Syria but must work to end the Syrian ‘civil’ war that has brought war back to Turkey. The fact is war in Syria has long since not been a civil war.

    I think that Erdogan expect’s the outcome from his war making in Syria to result in a democracy that very naturally resembles democratic and thus Islamist Turkey. What else could people expect him to really think?

    People ought to really listen to him remind people of what Egypt is all about as they critisize his latest move! Listen to what he is saying about the KSA. Listen to how he exposes the do nothing Europeans. He is right about all of them.

    The road to Damascus is not just through Idlib where the Russian air force is STILL destroying hospitals as policy day in day out. Putin and co must be stood up to and they can be!

    Even the 1/2 theorists long ago stopped believing that Putin was in Syria with the rest of the HIRISE in order to end the war and bring a democratic result about. So they won’t notice anything at the moment and more silence in 1/2 theory land would probably be best. The ABC types ought to join them but as they get paid to talk crap just can’t. Imagine having to dribble on about bad old uncle Erdogan and then having to admit that it is the Turks that have most of the refugees that HIRISE is generating as policy! And, what is to be done when Vlad has made the cost more expensive than you would like?

    The Turks steadily have increased their footprint and tried to ensure that conservative but democratic Islamists get and keep control of territory and Islamofascist types are defeated yet we are not to notice. I will grant Steve that (as we have often seen in these last 8 years) it is sometimes very hard to spot the difference between the 2 but that has been just as true in Iraq and in Libya and even in Egypt! (remember the US female reporter raped in Tahrir Square?); and there is always those that change from the one to the other and those that playact as democrat by day and come out as fascist at night…..but none of that reality gets us far because we understand that we start with that very problem (Hervin Khalaf RIP). The solution for ‘realists’ is to back tyranny but that option is not open for people who believe that democratic revolution is the way forward.

    Assad and thus HIRISE are (1/2 theory or not) the root problem and democracy via Turkish backing the very very messy solution! I for one might wish it were otherwise but that means as much as a Putin promise. If Assad can survive for a bit longer with the reinclusion into his Syria of what parts of what used to be Rojava that ‘he’ / HIRISE can grab so be it because that is still not going to end the war for democracy and the return to Aleppo etc., of the Syrian refugees.

    I have no wish to see any such stability descend on Syria to quote the usual word from the usual suspects from the ALP.

  4. 4 Stephen Owens

    What goes on in Syria is all a bit murky. Turkey was in an undeclared alliance with ISIL but that alliance was disrupted by the Kurdish/US alliance. The US has 50 nuclear weapons at a Turkish air base as well as the US president I think his name is Whatthefuck has 2 Trump towers in Turkey. The President dissolved the Kurd/US alliance bizarrely stating that the Kurds had been no help during WW2
    Now Turkey has committed a blatant act of aggression with the FSA in tow. This so called FSA can be measured by the videos that they have distributed where they gleefully execute Kurdish civilians.
    Erdogan has driven the Kurds into the hands of Assad who now rely on his good graces for their protection.
    Erdogan must be a student of Mao because didnt Mao say if someone you dont like is sitting out the war attack them bring them into the conflict always strive to unite your enemies

  5. 5 Stephen Owens
  6. 6 patrickm

    Eight years ago no one had heard of ‘Rojava’ nor ‘understood’ that Kurds ought to be left in control of all territory nth east of the Euphrates plus a large pocket west. The Obama led US (very specifically Biden who is currently a little silent) told them to get out of that pocket and go back east Who does not know this?

    They did not go! THEY just stalled and eventually defied the US and stayed with game playing formulas! Everyone knew who was running the pocket including current western supporters who refused to be critical of them then when I was and you were silent!

    Why did they side with Assad all along when push was at shove? For example earlier in this ‘civil’ war they had a big enclave that they kept control of in Aleppo, and that bit of yellow was not in conflict with Assad’s section of Aleppo! They also had Afrin. Well now things have changed and when they would not negotiate and leave Manbij they got thrown out of Afrin that they had wanted to link through to in the first place!

    Biden is very quiet for a good reason. People might eventually notice that he was totally ineffective in getting the Kurds to be reasonable and stay out of Manbij. But instead of reflecting on what we know you Steve cling on to the usual poor propaganda about islamists really being islamofascists. They are not the same as I have often said but it is true they often hide in protoform within the ranks of the democratic revolution.

    Egypt under the military coup leadership that killed the democratic islamist reolutionaries and does so every day is (like you currently are) very critical of the Turkish democracy liberating another footprint in Syria. Around the world the pseudoleft finds itself in agreement with them and Putin. They should stop they are making things worse they realy support ISIS yada yada. Yet what of the millions driven out by the hospital bombers? Putin, Assad and Sisi (former Director of Military Intelligence like Putin) are all hospital bombing anti democrats that – as policy – drive out Syrians by the millions! Sorry folks but this has to be fought and put a stop to. Taking in refugees will not do the trick.

    Democratic Turkey plans on bringing the Syrians all home to the country called Syria. They are coming back as an army not as refugees!

    Some Kurdish separatists that have been conducting a war against the Turks for the last 30 years would now like people to forget that they are at war and have been fighting Syrians to gain an ‘independant’ Rojava! But people do not forget basic facts. Rather than throw in their lot with the Democratic Syrian National Army (formerly all manner of groups and the FSA who are -thankfully- kept in check by the Erdogan led Turks, the separatists would prefer unity with anti-democratic HIRISE tyrants. Well more fool them.

    I am pretty sure that the Turks will liberate Manbij with and for the SNA and that the HIRISE backed ‘SAA’ will suffer a defeat. They will soon enough or eventually grab that entire strip in the nth East.

    I have long understood what the issues involved in Manbij are, so I am not surprised that the SDF are being forced out. They never had to be. This is and always was poor leadership that costs the lives of mostly young and good Kurds.

    The Turkish government under Erdogan is simply not anti Kurd and that has been perfectly clear for years. There is confusion sure but the proof is what people do, not what they say. We have many years of proof of what all the sides have been doing.

    Without theory you are once again ‘groping in the dark’.

    I am already looking ahead to the liberation of Aleppo, and that is years down the track. But the SNA must eventually turn their attention to the issue of cities. When Erdogan talks of returning Syrians he is talking about the totality of that issue not some dump of refugees in a paddock.

    Turkey is training and equipping the SNA. The Kurds ought to throw in with them but some (possibly a majority even) of Kurds are badly led by the PKK and play these deadly games instead. They will lose. So will the Assad in the making on the NILE! Democratic revolutionaries now have their eyes wide open about what these HIRISE sorts are capable of.

    Talk is cheap; just ask Biden.

    If you want to understand what is happening in Syria just remember that it is the masses that make war and Erdogan is leading the masses forward step by painful bloody step. He has not made moves until it was actually demanded by the masses. This is the forth such move. He is not way out in front but rather leading in pointing to the solutions to real problems that HIRISE can’t solve and the rotten western leadership won’t solve!

    Ask yourself why aren’t Australian troops on the ground even extracting a bus load of Australian children and fanatic and or deluded women!

    More later…

  7. 7 Stephen Owens
    Is Afrin the model for Rojava as a whole? As the Kurds keep saying they were faced with a choice, a rotten compromise or genocide.
    You must remember your Irish history when the Irish delegation attended talks with Churchill and was offered a war of extermination or a rotten compromise. You agree that the Irish had to chose the compromise but some how you think that the Kurds should accept genocide. That Turkish army is going nowhere already because the Kurds have made the only real choice on offer.

  8. 8 Steve Owens
  9. 9 Stephen Owens

    I gotta get it right is that the Syrian National Army or the Syrian Nazi Army?

  10. 10 patrickm

    Genocide no less! Thank god Putin and Assad are there to protect them from the SNA!

    Is reading beyond you or are you just forgetful? ‘ I will grant Steve that (as we have often seen in these last 8 years) it is sometimes very hard to spot the difference between the 2 but that has been just as true in Iraq and in Libya and even in Egypt! (remember the US female reporter raped in Tahrir Square?); and there is always those that change from the one to the other and those that playact as democrat by day and come out as fascist at night…..but none of that reality gets us far because we understand that we start with that very problem (Hervin Khalaf RIP). The solution for ‘realists’ is to back tyranny but that option is not open for people who believe that democratic revolution is the way forward. “

  11. 11 Steve Owens

    Yes it is truly sad that Assad murderer that he is poses less of a threat to the Kurds than the gentle people from the SNA.

  12. 12 Stephen Owens

    Patrick the thing that you don’t seem to understand is that the Syrian civil war is over at least the bit where democratic forces defeat Assad is over.
    The rebels at the beginning were hard pressed AK47 v tanks but Saudi Arabia changed this by supplying the rebels with US made tow anti tank missiles and then Assad became hard pressed only to be saved by Putin who supplied him with tanks that have activated armor
    Then we had cease fire after cease fire which were all defeats for the rebels until the rebels were pushed back into Iblid where Al Qaeda have eliminated the more democratically minded rebel groups
    Truth is that in Syria if you proclaim support for democratic revolution you will have you head removed from your body, that is anywhere in Syria except for Rojava which will soon cease to exist thanks to you new hero Erdogan. I know that reason will not separate you from your new hero I will just have to wait for reality to do that work

  13. 13 patrickm

    It is no surprise that you have got it as wrong as every other trot. You are saying nothing about Manbij because you know that this is exactly the long term problem that the Pkk leadership have played games with rather than withdraw from. Biden told them they would not get US help if they did not pull back but they never did! They just made war against the FSA and kept the peace with HIRISE. Turkey is the democratic country that has to carry the biggest load re Syria. It has been, with all those millions of refugees while all the trots around the world have yabbered on with their usual hands off crap or even worse as they actually back uncle Vladimir!
    The recruits that the Turks have been training are not the sort of people that trots care about. These people want democracy for themselves and that will require a government that is very like Erdogan is heading up. The Kurds are not just PKK and most live in Turkey where they are not fighting off a genocide. The PKK should make peace with the democratic Turks and not unite with the tyranny preserving HIRISE.

    Even after all these years you remain clueless in the face of the ongoing struggle for human progress in the ME. Very messy business this swamp draining. Consider every other example of revolution. They all resemble two steps forward one step back. There are still so-called leftists that like trump still think that liberating the Iraqi masses was a mistake. Hard to believe but right out in open public display we have such clueless makers of democratic revolution!

    Try supporting the making of revolution. Assad is not going to be on the side of voting. HIRISE are refugee makers just like the PKK has been up to. They are being reluctantly brought to a negotiating position after a pointless test of military strength. The leadership is at fault. The masses are paying for it.

    Millions of Syrians will return and liberate all of Syria. If you have no plan for all these people then you are not part of the way forward. The plan must include Syrian cities. Who is currently talking about liberating Syrian cities? If not why not?

  14. 14 Stephen Owens

    Patrick you say that they (I guess by they you mean the YPG)”They just made war against the FSA….” This is total BS. Back in 2012 the YPG and the FSA signed a truce after minor conflicts had occurred. Several units in the FSA joined with the YPG to form the SDF which is why the SDF is about 40% Arab in ethnic composition. Whats the word for when something is no true? whatever that word is, what you are saying is that.

  15. 15 Stephen Owens

    Manbij? Manbij? Whats your point about Manbij? Heres what happened in Manbij which I have pointed out to you before but you just ignore.
    “During the civil war, on 20 July 2012, Manbij fell to local rebel forces who thereafter administered the city. ln December, there was an election to appoint a local council.[27] In January 2014, forces from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) took over the city after ousting the rebels. The city has since become a hub for trading in looted artifacts and archaeological digging equipment.[28] In June 2016, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) launched an offensive to capture Manbij,[29] and by June 8 had fully encircled the city.[30] On 12 August the SDF had established full control over Manbij after a two-month battle.[31]

    By 15 August, thousands of previously displaced citizens of Manbij were reported returning.[32] On 19 August 2016, the Manbij Military Council issued a written statement announcing it had taken over the security of Manbij city center and villages from the SDF, of which it is a component.[33]

    Today Manbij is self-administered by the Manbij City Council, co-chaired by Sheikh Farouk al-Mashi and Salih Haji Mohammed,[34] as part of Shahba region within the de facto autonomous Federation of Northern Syria – Rojava framework. While public administration including public schools has regained secular normalcy after the ISIL episode,[35][36] a reconciliation committee to overcome rifts created by the civil war was formed,[37] and international humanitarian aid has been delivered,[38] the democratic confederalist political program of Rojava is driving political and societal transformations in terms of direct democracy and gender equality.[39][40] Reconstruction after devastations of civil war combat[41] remains a major challenge.

  16. 16 Stephen Owens

    Kurds give Americans the traditional salute of potatoes plus please if you have information about Manbij please share how else will I learn?

  17. 17 Stephen Owens

    Is this what you are on about
    Well the Kurds stayed and the US kept supplying them so I guess it was just Biden BS while he was visiting Turkey anyhow civil war boundaries move if you want them corrected you sit down with affected parties and negotiate. But really is this what you mean when you say
    “Biden told them they would not get US help if they did not pull back but they never did! They just made war against the FSA…” Really they made war on the FSA? Just put some evidence forward that the SDF or YPG or PKK made war on FSA lets call this day one and see how many days it takes you to come up with some evidence DAY 1

  18. 18 patrickm

    I think people ought to focus on why democracy has just vanished in the same manner as Rojava did just a few days back. The reason is that it was never the reality. The truth has come out about what the the SDF was and that is it was the PKK as were all the other formulations.

    Now HIRISE cares not one jot for democracy and kills anyone who does when they can or when they think it is a good idea. But now Turkey has a larger footprint in Syria and this army protects democrats and can more than fight back if attacked. So why ought the SDF not negotiate with the anti Assad democrats? Why has there been no deal? Why have the PKK dealt with HIRISE but not shared power with the Syrians who are fighting HIRISE?

    The one clear truth for me is that ‘without a People’s army the people have nothing.’

    Erdogan is in command of an army that ought to be able to absorb the SDF so why has this not been the case? Why have Kurds pretended for years to be the SDF? Why have they sought territory rather than unity with other people who declare themselves to be democrats?

    The reason may be that they are playing a Kurdish nationalist game. This may very well not be the best way forward for democratic revolution.

    In Ireland the good Friday agreement was the way forward.

    Unity with HIRISE is not the way forward for any democrat or Syrian Kurd.

    If I wanted to set up a killing zone for HIRISE troops into a long drawn out struggle for democracy I would be inclined to draw them forward into territory where they can’t just bomb at will.

    I would rather play Turkeys hand rather than HIRISE. But it would be better still if the west would wake up and for a start tell the Kurds to pull their head in.

  19. 19 patrickm

    Very simply the PKK can’t make war on the Turks and not have war made back on them in return. PKK activity is what the SDF is all about. Democrats ought to have been able to come to a working unity with opponents of the terror regime but in all these years have not. That is worth thinking about, so naturally the usual suspects don’t bother to think through the issues and instead talk total rubbish about genocide! We must start by accepting that there is a war going on and it has been going on for 30 plus years and cost 40,000 plus lives. So then we ought consider if that war ought to have been resumed and who had an interest in the resumption. Erdogan had managed to get a ceasefire till the Syrian troubles brought the war back to life.

    When the enemy is HIRISE tyranny a deal ought to be able to be done with the Erdogan government, based on the PKK accepting an SDF style democracy formula that they lay claim to.

    The Erdogan government is a regime with decades of struggle behind it for democracy against all manner of enemies both near and far. The PKK has been able to work with the Assad regime!

    Democracy now! Ah yes the hands off everything and no blood for oil drongos. Watching such fuckwits will rot your brain.

  20. 20 Stephen Owens

    You said “They just made war against the FSA…” I asked you you back up this claim with evidence.You did not answer the question.
    FYI heres a list of FSA members who are in alliance with the YPG
    “FSA groups allied with the YPG
    Army of Revolutionaries[80][47]
    Jabhat al-Akrad
    Northern Sun Battalion[81]
    Northern Democratic Brigade[81]
    Jabhat Thuwar al-Raqqa,[82] including its sub-groups[81]
    Raqqa Hawks Brigade[81]
    Liberation Brigade[81]
    Syrian Elite Forces[81]
    Free Raqqa Brigade[81]
    Euphrates Liberation Brigade[81]
    Manbij Turkmen Battalion[81]
    Manbij Revolutionaries Battalion[81]
    Euphrates Jarabulus Battalions, including its sub-groups[81]
    Jarabulus Company[81] (defunct)
    Revolutionaries of Tal Abyad Front[81]”
    So just back to the question you state “They(YPG) just made war against the FSA…..”
    You just have to give an example of your claim, is that too hard? What stops you from providing a simple example to back up your claim surely you have evidence, your claim cant just be made up out of thin air can it?

  21. 21 Stephen Owens

    Now into Day 2 “They just made war against the FSA…” Really they made war on the FSA? Just put some evidence forward that the SDF or YPG or PKK made war on FSA lets call this day one and see how many days it takes you to come up with some evidence DAY 1”

  22. 22 patrickm

    Why not list the group that you left unlisted? That is just stupid. BTW the 2 lists are only some of the groups

  23. 23 Stephen Owens

    “They just made war against the FSA…” Really they made war on the FSA? Just put some evidence forward that the SDF or YPG or PKK made war on FSA lets call this day one and see how many days it takes you to come up with some evidence

  24. 24 patrickm

    Why did you leave out the 2nd list?

  25. 25 patrickm

    where is the List that you deliberately left off? As is said it takes 2 to tango, and even a dolt knows that’s the same with war. you know what they say about getting stuck in a hole. Stop digging yourself in deeper. Now that you are linking up with Assad and the rest of team tyranny it will be interesting to see how the democracy bit works. But first the old list of who was at war!

  26. 26 patrickm

    GWB once said ‘with some people you are never quite sue if they are telling you the truth but with vlad you always know’. It is just as clear with the silence from Steve. I am still chuckling at just how funny Steve’s dishonesty was. But I won’t put the list up for him. Nor will I explain again the obvious 2 sided nature of war. Stunning.

    Now Steve will try to say that what he meant…
    But first you can post the list.

  27. 27 Stephen Owens

    You are just ducking the question I put up a list of FSA units that are in alliance with the YPG some of these joined the YPG to create the SDF thats why the SDF has a composition that is 40% ethnic Arab.
    Stop ducking the question and give some evidence to your statement
    “They just made war against the FSA…” or just admit that you overstated the case.
    Heres the list of FSA that are fighting the YPG
    FSA groups fighting the YPG
    Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army
    Sultan Murad Division
    Free Idlib Army
    Mountain Hawks Brigade
    Northern Division
    13th Division[64]
    23rd Division
    Levant Front
    Hamza Division
    Elite Army
    Army of Victory
    Ahrar al-Sharqiya

  28. 28 Stephen Owens

    Why the first list is much more useful than the second is that the first is a list of FSA groups in alliance with the YPG the second is a list of organisations that under Turkish assistance attacked the SDF in Afrin and now this latest incursion. The truth is that you cant find any evidence of the YPG making war on the FSA what can be found is minor skirmishes organised truces and the attacks launched by Turkey and FSA.
    So produce evidence that the YPG was making war on the FSA or admit error its as simple as that.

  29. 29 Stephen Owens

    Erdogan in his never ending quest to defeat Assad has just agreed to cooperate with Assad, a very cunning plan
    “Earlier the day, Putin held a meeting with the Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Sochi, after which, they announced that they had agreed on renewing the Adana Pact which establishes a cooperation between Turkey and Syria on border control, while combating all terrorist groups jointly and conducting joint patrols as well.”
    So your boy leading the “democratic revolution” has feet of clay and you my friend have no argument to push. It is over.

  30. 30 patrickm

    The thing about lists in what used to be Syria is that they are in true middle eastern style very fluid. For example all the groups named in the first list are but a pimple compared to what group was on that list a few days back. The much more powerful US! Now they have dropped off the list (sort of) and what groups have turned up instead that’s right we have the SAA and the Russians no less. The obvious point that the huge list of groups gathered up with all their banners and explained by the BBC are constantly in flux but the basic strategy of the bigger formations have remained clear.

    The PKK have a strategic stand and their tactics have served that stand. The PKK know that nobody fights a one sided war. War breaks out when the talking stops.

    You have to be stupid not to understand that the PKK under all it’s names has been following a military path that has rested control of territory from FSA types (under their myriad names) until stopped from further progress and the situation reversed. They were told to stop and go back etc but only ever stepped backwards when the shooting resumed.

    This is the 4th Turkish led operation. Turkey has made it clear that the PKK war is never forgotten and that as a vast majority of Kurds live in Turkey the war is vital. The territory that the PKK has managed to gain is now being undone. First it was done then it is being undone. It did not just rest territory from IS and even if it did with all that US help it was still told by Biden to get back over the river but instead it decided that it would fight rather than give up the project that it had started on named Rojava. That is the way you make war Steve. It has been going for decades and the Turks are not so stupid as to not know what the issues are.

    How will you cope with Assad’s troops being the wanted target for the FSA types? Time for a new list!

  31. 31 patrickm

    They just made war against the FSA…” Really they made war on the FSA? Just put some evidence forward that the SDF or YPG or PKK made war on FSA lets call this day one and see how many days it takes you to come up with some evidence DAY 1

    Here is a vid you could have chosen for yourself…

    Now apparently you don’t want to know they are fighting what you want to know is who struck the first blow as if the rights and wrongs of a battle let alone a 30yr war can be decided by such a dopy measure of who started it.

    So your boy leading the “democratic revolution” has [about 4million refugees to bring back to Syria and that will require some time and some cities and they won’t disappear nor will they be just bombed back again by the Russians…] feet of clay and you my friend have no argument to push. It is over.


    Turkey has a very big Army deployed now and they have some big political issues to patiently resolve. HIRISE had to be stood up to and the Turks could not do that and forget that it was still at war with the PKK now could it? Whatever happened to the ‘Democratic’ enclave run by the PKK? We won’t be hearing much from that direction till Assad has to pull back because he is stretched to thin again.

    Actually I hope the PKK comes to their senses and works out the alternative plan to Assad.

    Also you might guess the reason why there was a
    Second Battle of Ras al-Ayn (2019) as but one example of what the issues are.

    According to PYD leader Salih Muslim Muhammad, Arab rebel control of Ras al-Ayn would have two effects. First, it would isolate Kurdish pockets in Aleppo Province from the main area in Hasakah Province, giving the FSA and its affiliates more leverage over the PYD/YPG. Second, it would secure a vital supply line from Turkey that could potentially enable Arab rebels to seize control over greater parts of Syria’s east, including the city of Hasakah itself.[65] Rebel leader Nawaf Ragheb al-Bashir, a prominent Arab tribal figure from Hasakah Province who has engaged in disputes with Kurds in the past,[66] stated that his forces “will not allow the separatists to control [Hasakah] province because it is the richest part of Syria in terms of oil and agriculture”.

    Back in 2012 it went like…
    ‘Syria’s civil war, which activists say has killed more than 39,000 people, began as an anti-regime uprising in March last year but morphed into a conflict pitting mainly Sunni rebels against Assad’s regime dominated by his minority Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam.

    But earlier this month Kurdish residents backed by PYD militiamen began taking control of towns near the border with Turkey as pro-government forces pulled out without a fight, sparking tension and clashes with established rebel groups in the region.

    North and northeast Syria are home to most of the country’s two million-strong Kurdish minority, who have mostly stayed out of the civil war leading to angry allegations by the opposition that they are cutting deals with President Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

    Kurds question why the rebels entered a safe area, which they say is home to thousands of refugees who fled embattled areas of the country.’,-rebels-clash-in-northern-Syri.aspx

    Now there is clear unity with Assad and the PKK but the Turks have turned up in strength so push is still dealing with a shove.

  32. 32 Stephen Owens

    Patrick yes it does appear to be the YPG parading dead bodies. The caption says its “YPG parade corpses of FSA fighters through Afrin, N. Aleppo” and you just believe whatever it says. Have you heard the word gullible. If these are FSA troops what battle is it from? Why would you believe that they are battle casualties? Why do you believe its Afrin? Who put this propaganda piece together? No it suits your purpose so you accept it without question.

  33. 33 Stephen Owens

    You put forward the battle of Ras al Ain really your supporting al Qaeda in Syria this is where your rotten politics has lead you to be an apologist for al Nusra aka al Qaeda in Syria

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