No choice but to run for their lives.
Artillery is for destroying a military opponent or any ‘legitimate target of war’ and I’m always glad to hear of any people running away from artillery directed at military forces operating near them. Naturally directing such fire at civilians is a war crime and so is systematically bombing hospitals from the air. When that bombing is the reality, plausible denial is sought. Putin is a criminal perpetrator and is bombing hospitals as policy. This has been a continuation of Assad’s policies. Yet even reckless aerial bombing really is the same as directing artillery fire at civilians. The HIRISE coalition doesn’t have any credibility remaining over refugee-making issues like hospital bombing. Quite simply Putin is a war criminal assisting Assad who is another war criminal and Steve obviously knows this just as well as I do. So my question is; what is the plan to stop these criminals from committing their ongoing crimes? It can’t possibly be to declare that the criminally conducted war is over and that these criminals won! Any declaration that the war is over just permits a return to their smaller scale, day by day normal crimes. It’s no plan to stop the war criminals.
So what is or ought to be the ‘western’ plan to stop them committing crimes? After all, even people like Steve are not opposed to revolution or so he proudly says; and we are to understand by that, not opposed to a revolution for democracy, meaning very broadly, almost across the political and cultural swamp of the middle east. So we are to understand that Steve is all for the draining of that swamp, that is to say, the changing of the politics and culture from brute tyranny to liberal democracy at some stage 1 level. (whatever that exactly means for their region). The west had to start somewhere and so will they. It won’t look like the current west anymore than a trip back in time would take us to some good old days.
What such ‘support’ for revolution means (at a minimum) is acceptance of democratic elections under a constitution that protects the minority from the oppression of a majority in the manner of the Iraqi constitution, and then the ongoing struggle to make those words a living functioning reality. All pretty basic stuff for people who say ‘And this doesn’t mean I’m against communism or against revolution it just means I’m against stupid.’ sic We all remember that Jefferson owned slaves, and there are demonstrations, riots, and killing in Iraq right now!
Now I have often objected to actions from people who while nominally on my side do things that are ‘stupid’, one only has to go back a couple of days and see how deadly and obviously harmful such rotten actions can be. I called it out straight away but that didn’t stop Steve from making use of the same crime to attack the whole war. Democrats are opposed to all such crimes but we can’t forget those bigger crimes that set the stage for these other crimes. Those bigger crimes have driven ½ the population of Syria out of their homes and they haven’t stopped yet! Ultimately 500,000 deaths stem from the crime of a tyranny holding on to power when the peaceful revolution made its clear demands. And what have NATO leaders been doing to end the big HIRISE crimes? Other than killing ISIS not much!
Now having killed enough ISIS thugs Trump would like to take his troops and go home but his military advisors have told him that he actually has to go back in and so now the whole world hasn’t got a clue what will happen next. This is a very confusing period for anyone.
But the PKK ought to know that their old strategy is now in tatters, even if their western cheer squad has (as usual) no clue what is happening and wait to be told what to think. ISIS has worked out the same thing for its strategy, and Al Qaeda, who told them from the start that they would fail with their adventurous land grab strategy, can now shake their heads as they themselves go deeper underground to continue to hide among the good Muslims! That has always been their method for Syria and it is very sound. What the pseudo-left can’t deny is that there is such a thing as good Muslims and that they constitute the current majority in all the countries of the Middle East that is going to go through any democratic revolution. These good Muslims must come to power from any such democratic process. So consequently there will be deep Islamofascist sleepers within these political formations. That really can’t be stopped and must be constantly countered. That is just how the world works. People very often pretend one thing and work towards another just look at al Sisi saluting his political leader not long before he staged a coup and arrested him!
The enemy fights back and that is why such a democratic revolution is protracted despite any wish that it was not so. They have often won in the past and will always have a fightback of some sort.
Now, what of the Turkish, Erdogan-style Islamists? These people have waged a struggle for democracy against exactly the enemy coup type militarists etc., for decades. Just what are these Islamists up to?
They have to work to keep the good Muslims from further radicalizing, while fully understanding that they are committed to Islamic norms; and that includes some notion of Jihad because that is the culture that they are in.
Now this is when it gets complicated and westerners have to look to what Erdogan has done at home as an indication of what his intentions are next door. He ordered the Army in for this 4th occasion and so that is now both a very big footprint of territory and a large army. The Turks have on every occasion they deployed made a great show of the number of troops being sent in! The great size of these deployments is almost right out there on full display. A bit like Mao along the lines of if you need 10 send 20 or 30 and quite unlike the Rumsfeld method. Not quite as plain, but for a keen observer like me something like the demonstrations breaking out in Lebanon that are now on show. Don’t go asking for proof that they are the biggest army, because it is just an assertion that I make with no intention of proving.
Rather than Erdogan, it is Putin who is the well-known liar that once even ½ fooled the ½ theorists that used to post their thinking about Syria at this site. They gave up posting about Syria and I gave up annoying them about their foolishness. But now Steve is making the assertion that the very big military forces commanded by Erdogan are in a coalition with Islamofascists. He wants me to ‘…recognise that Turkey and IS were in an informal alliance.’ He is asserting that perhaps the vilest style of Islamofascist that we have seen since well…ever really, and that is up against some stiff competition – and Erdogan are mates! This accusation is commonly made by ‘the usual suspects and to be expected even from the MSM and I have an answer.
We, that is everyone that has ever been positively contributing to this site have opposed such vile creatures that we term Islamofascists since well before 9/11. We have ALSO always stood up in opposition to all those pseudo-leftist ‘stop the war coalitions’ and all their ‘hands off’ and never unite lines. The track record is now over a very long time. All of us have supported armed revolution to overthrow oppressors.
I have always had consistent ‘rotten’ Maoist politics that are founded on support for the underlying democratic revolution. We have often argued that one can’t be a communist without first being a revolutionary democrat and I have never stopped learning about and thinking about Syria even though I haven’t posted much recently. From my studies, it is apparent that HIRISE is the issue the western world has to overcome in order to stop the crimes that Steve ought to call first-line ‘stupid’, rather than focus on the second tier crimes that will eventuate even as we try our best to ensure they do not.
The second tier will nevertheless happen because there are weak link allies on the democrat side and also enemies concealed within. That is the nature of not just our war but all revolutionary war. What the Assad-HIRISE has been up to for all these years is not an accident and near-miss collateral damage but targeted terror bombing. HIRISE is waging a terror war and driving off the Syrian people who wanted to live free of the current undemocratic tyranny. Refugees and Rubblestan were both obviously created as policy! The second-tier crimes that happen from the democrat’s side are not in the interests of the Islamist democrat types that Erdogan has shown himself to be over decades of struggle. That is the answer.
Back in 2011 Syrian soldiers who would not fire on their own people formed the FSA and ran for their lives for the protection of the Turkish border and the other borders as well. But Turkey is where they are principally based. Then they started to fight back and that is why the animation looks as it does. The first green territory was very often right on the border. It was the ‘green team’ because it was never just soldiers that ran for their lives who formed the FSA and then fought back. It was the masses that came out from Friday prayers who were subsequently shot down in their peaceful demonstrations who formed the majority of those that fought back. They didn’t just accept orders from any FSA, composed as it was of former regime soldiers anyway! They stood up separately and made their own revolution. They have negotiated from their own POV and relative strength and not just accepted orders. Civil war complications from the very start were the reality for Syria and understood to be so from the very start of the resistance by any experienced western observer.
By 2019 however; through a protracted and massive struggle, Turkey has helped build (shelter, equip and train) a force with sufficient discipline that now has the ‘mass’ to pull into its orbit many other smaller rebel groups as it goes forward under that Turkish protection with Turkish supplied arms, etc. This force is now called the Syrian National Army and that name spells out what it is designed to do in the future rather than what it is doing now.
What the SNA is doing now is taking shelter from HIRISE bombing under the protection of a massive mechanized army that is very capable of defeating the HIRISE professionals it faces off against. In reality, HIRISE is most assuredly battle-hardened but still not comparable to the fully integrated Turkish armed forces it faces. Turkey is a better fighting force in all respects in my opinion and no one ought to doubt, up to whatever task might come its way and also is strategically placed to quickly throw the Assad backing Syrian Arab Army (SAA) out of Aleppo for just one example of what it could do if all this goes pear-shaped.
Arthur has long held the Russian deployment in contempt and I have always agreed with that view in the strategic sense. A paper tiger that Mao depicts. Tactically though it is still a real tiger. But I don’t doubt this puffed-up bunch of terror bombers will become that paper tiger and in the not too distant future.
The Syrian rebels that are going to defeat Putin were once mostly reluctant freedom fighters; they were mostly everyday Islamic believers who had no choice but to organize with the only people they could trust, and just as often could not trust – because Syria was a terror police state with spies and informants everywhere! As often as not trust could only be established when under fire when your real comrades are fighting for their lives with you. That is the reality of civil war generally. It is a universal truism that applies from Ireland to China and everywhere in between.
The conclusion is that people have to learn how to make a revolution on the job and with the raw materials that they have to hand and in Syria they have and are, learning the most with the Turkish government!
Erdogan knows he faces a fascist warmongering coalition led not by Assad who he holds in obvious utter contempt, but now by Putin who is a puffed-up fascist and not much more than a strategic incompetent destroying relations with all his neighbors in a vain attempt to turn back the clock to the old era of Russian superpower status. He is well overstretched and Turkey is just stepping up to its task and that task is to help the Syrian peoples make their revolution against the Putin-led HIRISE troops.
Over the last couple of weeks, this running away from artillery has been happening in an enclave in the Nth East of what used to be Syria. The media has presented this advance as an attack on the Kurds, but Erdogan has explained for years that this territory is run by the PKK, and the western world has long designated them as a terrorist organization – which the Turks have every right to protect themselves from and continue their war against.
The history of the PKK is not now at issue, nor the former practices of the Turkish terror regimes of the past.
Today the issues and solutions are not what they were when the PKK formed up to fight all those decades ago. The new reality must be correctly identified or the whole war will be misunderstood and progressive westerners will not know what is going to happen next.
For several years now this enclave has been colored yellow on maps and has been expanding. It is essentially controlled by the PKK, with only an SDF fig leaf for plausible denial. The Turkish government and Syrian National Army they back are not buying this cover story. This ‘Rojava’ had also contained 3 smaller Assad enclaves colored pink. The pink is now spreading and butting up against SNA green and there is shooting between them. So now, with the Turkish-led action the whole enclave is ‘in play’, and there are currently reports of at least one small Russian force coming under direct fire, from which they withdrew and then told the world it never happened, but it was caught on film!
So what is likely to happen? Will Assad get back control of all this Yellow territory (including the oil) or will the Syrian National Army under the protective wing of the Turkish military steadily take over at least most of it and then another period of regrouping drag on?
These are fundamental questions. How will the democratic revolution make progress in Syria if Assad makes the gains that the HIRISE forces are currently enabling?
Turkey is a democracy and so is led by a reasonably conservative Islamist party. Almost every county in this region would be if the democratic revolution is underway to that stage 1 level, and that, Steve, is what I am advocating as a supporter of democratic revolution.
Fascists are making war and I want to know how they are to be defeated by democrats.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/27/iraq-government-attacking-fallujah-hospital
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-11-07/us-forces-pound-fallujah-destroy-hospital/581004
https://www.middleeasteye.net/fr/node/1199
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/apr/02/iraq.simonjeffery
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3988433.stm
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=axxx1fdbGIsC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=fallugia+hospital+hit&source=bl&ots=Zd7SZyzo1M&sig=ACfU3U1UzUp7fTfwlBqL6p-b1bhsWRCT8A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiaidCroMXlAhVV8HMBHXXjBK44ChDoATACegQIBxAB
Yes I completely agree with you that targeting hospitals is wrong.
I invite you to clearly state for the record that you actually believe that
a) There was a US policy to attack Iraqi hospitals as part of some sort of plan to drive civilians out of Iraq in an equivalent manner to what HIRISE policy has been in Syria, or any other goal thought beneficial to US interests -like getting control of the oil perhaps.
or
b) There was not an equivalence no matter what the incidents in these other battles in this other war.
That it is indeed your view the Al Qaeda/Baathists should have been left alone by the US in 2004 (to resume their attacks on the Kurds and Shia)
or do you accept the US having gone to war had a duty to defeat these enemies in Fallujah and then leave Iraq to the Iraqi peoples’ as they did?
It is well known that you were opposed to the liberation of the Iraqi peoples’ and marched behind banners proclaiming that there ought to be no bloodshed for oil etc., but you will recall that you did indeed lose that war and the troops went there and smashed the Baathists and that the Iraqi peoples now hold regular elections having hanged the man western peace activists tried to keep in charge!
You don’t like that but must concede that it’s far better than actually losing a war for democracy as you now declare HAS happened in Syria with even more casualties.
You backed Libya and they are still struggling for democracy so others are entitled to expect no less support.
You will as usual pretend not to notice your predicament but are now in another deep hole and again still digging, but this time you have declared you’re not opposed to the democratic revolution.
Now there are issues in Iraq to this very day, but thankfully a vast mechanised Baathist army is not one of them. Whatever struggle is underway for the democratic revolution it is one you have just declared yourself in support of!
You are not just typing words with no actions attached to them, are you?
After all, as a supporter of the democratic revolution, one is NOT just going to propose to do nothing in the face of Al Qaeda and Baathists? It would not be the case even when the rest of the ‘rag heads’, hold to notions of democracy that are nothing to write to another timezone about, just as they do in your Albatross, Libya.
Try to argue for YOUR democracy revolution because I’m very keen to hear how you can be so sure that the Syrian war is over and that the anti-democrats have won; and that you are against the Iraq war but in favour of the Syrian struggle.
I was just reminded by Anita of the Kurdish situation in Iraq; Their autonomous region is run by people you used to regularly get stuck into, and that could be fair enough, but whatever the merits of those attacks the Iraqi Kurds are now far better off than Kurdish people in Syria that are now either defeated by Assad or working willingly with HIRISE. If not why not?
How goes the democratic revolution that you support in Egypt? Just to be clear what example anywhere would you like to point me to in order that I get what it is you are supporting. That is besides Libya that you never speak of but have a known track record of supporting.
I invite you to clearly state for the record that you actually believe that
a) There was a US policy to attack Iraqi hospitals as part of some sort of plan to drive civilians out of Iraq in an equivalent manner to what HIRISE policy has been in Syria, or any other goal thought beneficial to US interests -like getting control of the oil perhaps.
I think that there is enough evidence of US military attacking civilians to conclude that it is in fact official but denied doctrine of the US war machine.
There was not an equivalence no matter what the incidents in these other battles in this other war.
Clearly Russia has no need to disguise their war crimes as the US is a democracy and Russia isnt
That it is indeed your view the Al Qaeda/Baathists should have been left alone by the US in 2004 (to resume their attacks on the Kurds and Shia)
or do you accept the US having gone to war had a duty to defeat these enemies in Fallujah and then leave Iraq to the Iraqi peoples’ as they did?
My view at the time was that under international law as the occupying power the US has obligations that they failed to live up to.
It is well known that you were opposed to the liberation of the Iraqi peoples’ and marched behind banners proclaiming that there ought to be no bloodshed for oil etc., but you will recall that you did indeed lose that war and the troops went there and smashed the Baathists and that the Iraqi peoples now hold regular elections having hanged the man western peace activists tried to keep in charge!
I did not lose that war as I didnt have a side. I thought that the war was ill conceived.
You don’t like that but must concede that it’s far better than actually losing a war for democracy as you now declare HAS happened in Syria with even more casualties.
What has happened in Syria was worse but it was a knock on effect of Iraq No Iraq no ISIL no Iraq not Iran domination.
You backed Libya and they are still struggling for democracy so others are entitled to expect no less support.
I did support the action in Libya but this only lead to a fuck up that is all too familiar when the US does anything almost as if it is intentional.
Try to argue for YOUR democracy revolution because I’m very keen to hear how you can be so sure that the Syrian war is over and that the anti-democrats have won; and that you are against the Iraq war but in favour of the Syrian struggle.
I dont have a democratic revolution. The Syrian people do but this latest attempt has failed but the arch of history bends in favour of progress and of course they will try again.
Oh and BTW what do you want to say about 1. The Guardian report from 2003? Remember that was when the inexperienced or unthinking western supporters of democratic revolution like Steve himself thought that left to their own devices the AK47 toting Iraqi peoples’ could rid themselves of Saddam Hussein and his massive mechanised army! Now people know – full well from their own lived experience – that the far less powerful Assad was, at least not so far, able to be defeated even after a massive struggle over 8 years for such a democratic revolution. Yet here is Steve facing both ways at once now saying the Syrian revolutionaries were defeated and the war is over no less, but not to worry as they will try again! Curious that on the one hand it’s some sort of doddle to get rid of the regime of Saddam Hussein and on the other hand even after these masses were liberated anti-democrats could just waltz in to the point where Steve calls on ‘the US war machine’ to ‘rescue people’ and then join with the Syrian Kurds as they had with the Iraqi Kurds mind, and Steve keeps silent while that War Machine fights back through Mosul and so forth all the way to Raqqa! The breathtaking double standard is well understood from Steve as is his acceptance of the intervention in Libya and then his dump on the US yet again when they refused to get boots on the ground.
And what would you like to say of 2. The BBC report from 2004? That was when ‘Mr Allawi called the letter [from Annan] “confused”. He said if Mr Annan thought he could prevent insurgents in Fallujah from “inflicting damage and killing”, he was welcome to try.’ This is also the years when ‘Stop the War’ types wanted the troops out but Steve informs all who will listen that he did NOT want the troops withdrawn! That’s right NOT removed but yet still Steve thinks or implies [in 2019] that they were not there to liberate but rather there to ‘target’ hospitals! But perhaps he only thinks they just could care less if they hit hospitals. Who can yet tell what he actually thinks. That period was when Jim Molan was ‘Running the war in Iraq’. You Steve ought to read that book and learn a viewpoint that the BBC was and is not running.
Or perhaps you want to tell us of 3. The ABC report from 2004 that tells us the ‘US forces have hit Iraq’s rebel stronghold of Fallujah with the fiercest air and ground bombardment in months, as insurgents struck back with attacks that killed up to 37 people in Samarra. The Fallujah strikes, before a threatened major assault on what the US says are Saddam Hussein loyalists and militants allied to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, destroyed a hospital, a medical warehouse and dozens of homes, dazed residents said after a sleepless night.’ What what what?
Then there is 4. the HRW report of 2014 and the heading is all that Steve is wanting from this one. It’s a beauty. ‘Iraq: Government Attacking Fallujah Hospital’ followed by the sub heading ‘Barrel Bombs Hit Residential Areas’ and yet a safe hospital is pictured in the background with a small shell very close by. No matter by then barrel bombs were well known and could be thrown in as well. Anyway from the report ‘The Iraqi authorities denied the claims, which come with Baghdad locked in a months-long standoff with anti-government fighters in Fallujah amid a protracted surge in nationwide bloodshed, all of which is fuelling fears the country is slipping back into the all-out conflict of 2006 and 2007.’ Steve throws the mud without comment.
Then there is 5. the HRW report of 2015 and again ‘Iraq’s government is dropping barrel bombs and may also be targeting a hospital in its battle with militants in the conflict-hit city of Fallujah, Human Rights Watch alleged Tuesday.’ Just a little suspicious but it serves Steve’s purpose and he can inform us that ‘Yes I completely agree with you that targeting hospitals is wrong.’ fortunately he failed to tell us why he was engaging with any good will so we do not have to laugh at him.
I don’t think you ought to bother with 6. ‘Blood on Our Hands: The American Invasion and Destruction of Iraq’ By Nicolas J. S. Davies. This anti-war soldier is no Jim Molan. It’s a vile effort that presents anti democrats and Al Qaeda types- as a resistance and all these years after the US troops withdrew and they kept resisting democracy that can’t be your line now can it? Refresh your memory at Iraq Body Count and see how many bodies have been added by the anti-democrats after elections.
If you can’t make a sensible contribution and instead just do a dump of your anti-war non arguments right after proclaiming your support for democratic revolution in the ME, (after 16.5 year) you’re not about to start making much of an argument now! Time to rethink your credentials as a ‘supporter’ of democratic revolution.
Yes you supported the creation of a model democracy in Iraq a democracy that would inspire other countries to emulate it and resolve the Israel/Palestinian conflict.
Currently Iraq is 114/167 on the democracy index and 168/180 on the corruption index. The invasion threw the country into civil war and saw the rise of ISIL which conquered a third of the country. It allowed Iran to become a regional power and as we speak the streets run with blood. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-10-30/the-latest-1-soldier-killed-in-iraq-rocket-attack
well done
“That is besides Libya that you never speak of but have a known track record of supporting.”
Libya is a disgrace to the international community, there is a UN recognised government v a warlord. The warlord is supported by Saudi Arabia and the UAE and receives US made weapons from its supporters.
The UN calls for peace talks, please wake me up when someone waves a peace in our time scrap of paper about.
I support a humanitarian response to Libyan refugees and I would support any meaningful action to reduce the warlord to nothing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/russia-bombing-syrian-hospitals.html
View the above and shake your head at what Steve is up to with his comparison post
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/27/iraq-government-attacking-fallujah-hospital
Yes shake your head and compare the slick anti Russian report against the less well presented gallery of photos presented by Human Rights Watch. I was not wanting to say they were comparable in any other way than both Russia and the US have a record of attacking civilian installations.(the example that you wish to highlight isnt even the US attacking a hospital but the Iraqi army) I expect the Russian record to be worse because they are not constrained by needing a good propaganda image. Most people are aware that Russia is a gangster state and getting a reputation for unrestrained violence is an image enhancement. The US is different in that it likes to hide its war crimes and if they do surface the routine is deny deny deny apolgise move on but war crimes usually referred to as collateral damage do occur are covered up but sometimes leak out.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/24711413?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Aa4266364cf27dd017502860060577200&seq=6#page_scan_tab_contents
If you wanted a picture of a hospital completely destroyed by US this would have been a better choice
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3988433.stm
Does the US attack hospitals?
https://www.msf.org/kunduz-hospital-attack
NATO driving truck through Geneva Convention in its bombing of Belgrade “The Geneva Conventions prohibit the bombing of civilian buildings or even dual civilian/military sites if the “incidental loss of civilian life . . . would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage” of the attack. Citing those rules, human rights groups questioned the legality of attacking party buildings, TV studios and power stations.”
https://www.rferl.org/a/operation-allied-force-before-after/29831978.html4HZ5
try again https://www.rferl.org/a/operation-allied-force-before-after/29831978.html
US targeting civilians is all ancient history isnt it
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/10/1048851
“Oh and BTW what do you want to say about 1. The Guardian report from 2003? Remember that was when the inexperienced or unthinking western supporters of democratic revolution like Steve himself thought that left to their own devices the AK47 toting Iraqi peoples’ could rid themselves of Saddam Hussein and his massive mechanised army! Now people know – full well from their own lived experience – that the far less powerful Assad was, at least not so far, able to be defeated even after a massive struggle over 8 years for such a democratic revolution.”
The survival of Assad and the demise of Saddam are just simply not comparable. Assad was about to be defeated when he was saved by Russian intervention. The comparison is faulty.
” This is also the years when ‘Stop the War’ types wanted the troops out but Steve informs all who will listen that he did NOT want the troops withdrawn! That’s right NOT removed….”
You are absolutely correct I opposed the invasion because I thought that it was stupid (as the facts proved it to be) after it happened I argued that as the occupying power the USA had obligations under international law that they had to but didnt live up to.
Just like Afghanistan I argued that to invade would just reignite the Afghan civil war (which it did) but to withdraw would be to invite carnage on a massive scale.
After giving the Yanks a potato fare well the Kurds give the Turks an egg and rock welcome. Long live Kurdish resistance.
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/11/turkey-northern-syria-patrols-russia-deal-ypg-erdogan.html
Oh well may I make a correction I said that the Kurds greeted the Russians and Turks with rocks and eggs. On closer viewing I failed to see any eggs. https://anfenglishmobile.com/rojava-syria/turkish-russian-patrol-stoned-in-kobane-39062
Now that the region-wide war is red hot in Azerbaijan territory with both Turks and Syrian troops somehow involved it is worth recalling what Steve thought about Libya just 11 months ago
November 1, 2019 at 12:53 pm Edit
“That is besides Libya that you never speak of but have a known track record of supporting.”
Libya is a disgrace to the international community, there is a UN recognised government v a warlord. The warlord is supported by Saudi Arabia and the UAE and receives US made weapons from its supporters.
The UN calls for peace talks, please wake me up when someone waves a peace in our time scrap of paper about.
I support a humanitarian response to Libyan refugees and I would support any meaningful action to reduce the warlord to nothing.
Erdogan put in the meaningful troops while Macron, Putin the KSA and UAE and Egypt’s thug ruler backs the warlord!